Applause or Clapping in Church

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Applause or Clapping in Church

Postby Kim » Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:45 am

When did applause or clapping in the church become acceptable reverence for God? I saw on T.V. one of the SDA churches, right after a Babtism. The whole church stood up and applauded. I thought I was going to fall off my chair.
When did all of this start happening? I remember my Grandmother grabbing my hands when I was young, and saying, "No, No, we don't "clap", we say "Amen".
Ellen G. White says over and over in her writings, how we're not supposed to applaud for our fellow man. It makes them vain.
Where in the Bible does it talk about if your supposed to clap or not?
In my old-fashioned opinion, I think clapping in church, takes the reverence away from God.

God bless you.

Kim
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Postby Eugene Shubert » Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:51 am

Kim,

I recall a similar event while visiting the Dallas First SDA Church several years ago. The pastor made a big show of inviting a church member to the platform to extol the human and then directed the whole church to applaud her. I too was shocked.

It should make us wonder if there's a difference between papal flesh and Adventist flesh and if this is really a good time to be exalting the human.
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Clapping in the church

Postby Kim » Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:34 pm

Eugene,

I'm not putting down our church, I have grown up in the Adventist Church, but I am truly amazed in how the church has gone with the world. Our church used to be glad to be "different" and now the church is trying to be like all the other churches. I left the Cleburne SDA Church, because they were wanting to have a "woman" pastor. I'm glad the General Conference voted that one down. I have nothing against a woman speaking or teaching in church, it's the ordination part--I do not agree with. Thank God for my Grandmother, she taught me young and I believe taught me right!

The people who do the clapping in church, do not realize or care that the Angels and God are watching their every move.

God Bless you,
Kim
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Postby wise seeker » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:16 pm

PS 5:11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You; Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them; Let those also who love Your name Be joyful in You.

I belong to a church where the pastor gets very upset when people are not clapping or saying amen or making joyful shouts to God. The pastor believes that David made many joyful noises unto the Lord and even danced before him almost naked and hence his congregation must make loud noises or he complains. The pastor loves to point out that the bible says we are to shout for joy and that Christians are to be more excited about Jesus than pagans shouting at a football game for their team to win. But there are folks who believe that silence is the golden rule? How do you make a joyful shout to God in silence?

PS 66:1 Make a joyful shout to God, all the earth!

PS 81:1 Sing aloud to God our strength; Make a joyful shout to the God of Jacob.

PS 98:4 Shout joyfully to the LORD, all the earth; Break forth in song, rejoice, and sing praises.

PS 98:6 With trumpets and the sound of a horn; Shout joyfully before the LORD, the King.
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Postby Eugene Shubert » Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:27 am

wise seeker,

I believe you missed the point that Kim and I are focused on. We're talking about the sin of applauding our fellow man. There's a big difference between a joyful shout to God and applauding human beings.

wise seeker wrote:I belong to a church where the pastor gets very upset when people are not clapping or saying amen or making joyful shouts to God.

I would love to be a part of a congregation that has the joy of God in their heart. But joy can't be commanded. Clapping can be entirely human and even very irreverent. I'm reminded of the time, many years ago, when a friend called me up to tell me about what he had just finished watching on television. (I've seen similar performances). This is how he reported it. The televangelist W. V. Grant was performing one make-believe healing after another. The staged theatrics were extraordinarily dull. Every detail seemed forced and contrived. At the end of each declaration of supernatural healing Grant would say "Give God a big hand," and the audience would respond on queue as if God was a performing circus monkey who successfully performed some sort of magic trick.
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Applause or Clapping in the church

Postby Kim » Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:20 pm

Eugene,

I couldn't have said it better, I totally agree with you. I was thinking long and hard of how to respond to Wise Seeker, and in answer to their question about how to make joyful shouts in silence.

People seem to think the only way they get God's attention is to "get loud" about it, but God can read and hear our thoughts. So when we are in church and being silent God is impressing his will to us, and communicating with us without saying a word.

In my and only my opinion, clapping and or applausing our fellow man in church is a distraction for us. Satan will send people (even in our churches) to try to keep us from learning truth, and communing with God on a personal basis. Church has always been a sanctuary for me, when troubles come to me, it's my peace of mind.

David did praise the Lord, and shout to the Lord, but it was not in church, it was for divine guidance throughout his life, and for protection.

The Psalms who "wise seeker" quoted are PRAYERS to God. That's not the same thing as being in a sanctuary.

Anyone can go outside and shout to the Lord and praise the Lord, that's fine for outside, but a church is a holy place, and I would rather hear God, than all the applause for humans in the church.

God Bless You,
Kim
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Hebrew parallelisms

Postby Eugene Shubert » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:34 am

Kim,

It seems to me that a joyful shout and singing are Hebrew parallelisms. I believe they mean the same thing.


Psalm 81:1-2
1 Sing aloud to God our strength;
Make a joyful shout to the God of Jacob.
2 Raise a song and strike the timbrel,
The pleasant harp with the lute.

Psalm 98:4-6
4 Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;
5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,
6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn-
shout for joy before the LORD, the King.

Psalm 66:1-3
1 Shout with joy to God, all the earth!
2 Sing the glory of his name;
make his praise glorious!
3 Say to God, "How awesome are your deeds!
So great is your power
that your enemies cringe before you."

:bible:
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Applause or clapping in church

Postby Kim » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:35 am

Eugene,

Once again, you are totally right. A joyful shout and singing would be the same thing. I did not think about it like that. In my opinion, singing to the Lord (in the church) would be fine, saying Amen (in the church) would be fine, but "clapping" is not fine. The reverence to God gets lost when people applaud our fellow man.

We're supposed to be different than the world, and be an example to the world, and it seems Satan is getting a foothold in our church.

What is the answer? What do you do? It's not right to condone and participate in wrong behavior, but we all need to attend church to keep us strong and prepared. Families tend to slowly fall apart when their spirituality is lacking. Attending church helps families to keep their closeness.
The only answer I can come up with (in my opinion only) is to attend your church, but if they applaud, do not participate. I will give them a good "Amen", but will not clap.
What do you think Eugene?

God Bless You,
Kim
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Postby Eugene Shubert » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:48 pm

Kim wrote:What is the answer?

“I am instructed to say that we must do all we possibly can for these deceived ones. Their minds must be freed from the delusions of the enemy, and if we fail in our efforts to save these erring ones, we must ‘come out from among them’ and be separate.” 7MR 190.

Kim wrote:What do you do?

I follow the Manifesto Of Reform-Minded Seventh-Day Adventists.

Kim wrote:We all need to attend church to keep us strong and prepared. Families tend to slowly fall apart when their spirituality is lacking. Attending church helps families to keep their closeness.

That's not always the case. Ellen G. White wrote:

“There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian.” 12MR 333.

Kim wrote:The only answer I can come up with (in my opinion only) is to attend your church, but if they applaud, do not participate. I will give them a good "Amen", but will not clap.

What do you think Eugene?

I think it's reasonable to expect that the church leaders will retaliate and have you removed from the fellowship.
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Applause or Clapping in the church

Postby Kim » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:58 pm

Eugene,

Your last statement, threw me for a loop. Has the church gotten so bad, that they would actually kick you out you for not clapping?

Surely, I am not the only person who thinks that clapping takes away from the church. Is there any old-fashioned people in our church anymore? That just floors me.

I have a few E.G. White books, but not many. I love her writings, she seems to make it all so much easier to understand. I, myself know she was a Prophet, but so many dissmiss her as being just a human, and not inspired by God.

I'm so tired of hearing the statement. "The Bible was written by man, man makes mistakes". People have a hard time believing the Bible is inspired and they really have a hard time accepting E.G. White.
Here's another example of old-fashioned religious upbringing (in my case), I was always taught that it was the right thing to train your child in the Lord.

Proverbs 22:6
Train a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it.

In my own experiences, when my family is attending church, my life seems to work out really smooth. When we don't, bad luck, one thing after another. I don't know why, that's just the way it happens.

I was unaware of E.G. White's thought on the subject, I do not have that book. I have the complete "Testimonies to the Church", and Ministry of Healing", and a E.G. White Bible Commentary and that's about it.

God Bless you,
Kim
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Postby Eugene Shubert » Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:34 am

Kim,

I moved your last post because every thread should stay on its original topic. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss a different subject at any time.

If you want to study the context of the EGW quotes I used, you can do that at the OFFICIAL Ellen G. White website. All of EGW's published writings are available online. Click here.

My experience in the SDA church is given here.
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Applause or Clapping in the church

Postby Kim » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:17 pm

Hello Eugene,

I have done some investigating on the clapping issue, since my last post, and I have attended several SDA Churches, to see if they clapped or not, and my results were as follows:

The Joshua SDA Church does not clap, they say "Amen".
The Alvarado SDA Church does not clap, they say "Amen".
(They call the churches who do not clap- Traditional SDA)
My new church home is the Alvarado SDA Church.
I have spoken to several people in the SDA Church, and the general consensus is "that it is the larger SDA Churches, who have added this "clapping" to their services, to attract the "young people".
It is also known that the network for SDA (3ABN), does condone and practice "clapping" on their station.
The general population of SDA are all for this practice--They say the church has to "modernize", and not stand out so much!
Those words distressed me, "We're supposed to be separate from the world" (is my thought).
Eugene- I read your post on how your church "treated you" and "kicked you out". That's an inspiring story, on your part, and they will have to answer one day for their refusal of your truths!
It's a sad shame when you can't tell your church, what the Lord might be telling you to tell them.
It is not just the "leaders" of the church, who have the "Gift of Prophecy", but to all of us too!

God Bless You,
Kim
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Apostasy, Modernism and Entertainment

Postby Eugene Shubert » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:10 am

Apostasy and Entertainment in the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Kim,

Thanks for your kind words. I also thank you for your concern over the clapping issue.

Check out the official, professionally Laodicean reply of the SDA leadership to the Adventist's widespread acceptance of this practice—especially the last two paragraphs:

[url=http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/clapping.htm]Clapping in Church

Angel M. Rodríguez
Adventist Review
May 1997[/url]
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clapping in church

Postby Ross » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:15 pm

Just three weeks ago, for the first time in my life - I am nearly 70 - our new pastor urged the congregation to clap every one of the 20 odd pathfinders as they were invested.
I was quite stunned at it, but I guess that having seen nearly every trick in the book, we have not seen anything yet because we have had plenty of gracious warnings.
I am fortunate because if I get sufficient warning I am able to attend an independent group of people who were not wanted.
Clapping is a charateristic of Pentecostalism.
R.R. Pollock
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Postby dan » Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:07 pm

I spent a few years wandering around South America, and the Pentacostal churches down there have become a perfect illustration, for me, of the dangers of incorporating casual social behavior into church services.

One church from Brazil, called Dios es Amor, has rock music playing as they chant and wave and shout. The "revelator" shout "prophecies" about his congregation over the drums as members of the congregation throw themselves on the ground and writhe around in what they call the "Spirit." One particular woman was taken over by an intense experience that I hesitate to describe in this atmosphere (if you know what I mean). I was immediately reminded of the Nicolaitans and other apostate groups that seduced the early Christians away from the pure and simple doctrine of Christ. Reverence is hard to find in many churches these days, and clapping is one of the things that distracts us from what our main focus should be on the Sabbath - worshiping the Lord.

I was in a Jehovah's Witness meeting once in a town in Uruguay called Rocha; the discourse was taking a long time and I actually nodded off (he was ridiculously boring). I was rudely awoken by a thundering applause that erupted when the orator finished his talk. People where shouting, whistling and cheering. I looked at the guys face as he sat down, and he looked like he had just won an oscar. I was waiting for the high five. I realized how much that does actually draw attention away from the Lord and puts it on the person. He came across as extremely arrogant after his sermon.

My church has a policy that there be no clapping or cheering inside the chapel. It draws from our relationship with the Lord. I believe silence also helps the children distinguish between the casualness of the world, and the reverence we should show inside the chapels.
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