I now see your implicit intent, Eugene, but as I said above, having long understood the purpose of Ernie Knoll’s prophetic ministry, I did not see this to be a paramount element to be found in his prophecies. Prophets at times say nothing supernatural and only are used to call the people back to what has already bee stated in the Bible and by other Prophets. That is what I see Knoll is doing, ala. a John the Baptist who did nothing supernatural (i.e., signs. miracles, prophecies, etc), yet was, on one hand, called “more than a prophet” (= a messenger as EGW also mainly saw herself), even ‘greatest person ever born’, by Jesus. (Matt 11:1-11) And mind the involved context here of a comparison between the miracle working Jesus vs. John. As I see Knoll’s ministry and revelations from God mainly being to present ot SDA what, especially EGW has said, yet in a more detailed, though “simplistically” veiled, as that also serves as a (quite successful) “Stumbling block”, and as Knoll’s prophecies, which at first focused on the professed hope of SDA’s but now are more focused on the sure utter judgement and close of probation, then he does have quite a unique mission.

And I had mentioned in my last response his Sifting/Shaking result specification, which God can indeed pointedly symbolically state since He knows as a fact the “readiness” of each of His professed people. As he had showed EGW that ‘not even 1 in 20 were ready in the SDA Church’. You did not address this.

In a way, since I believe Knoll’s dream to be from God, I can see something that is technically “supernatural” in each of his dream when he presents something that is not explicitly found I the Bible or SOP but which perfectly harmonizes with related topics. Therefore such a “technical” listing can be quite long. But as I say, just the fact that Knoll is announcing that the SDA Church’s probation is now closing (see the Hourglass Dream), then that is a major “supernatural”, i.e., directly inspired specification for me.

And incidentally, my studies and experience has shown that “Dreams” as opposed to “Vision” and “Visions of the Night”, are used to focus more on past things, bringing forth some new information, light and specification on those past things. So it is most telling to me that Knoll is mainly having “Dreams” vs. Vision/Visions of the Night. (And you’ll/d see that key revelatory-type distinction in my interpreting of Steve Starman’s Dream as, at one key point, it switches from a “dream” to a “vision of the night”. And like I have been saying...let’s discuss my interpretation of Starman’s et. al. Dreams instead of Knoll.

See my comment on your 70 Weeks/2300 days view here

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote: All I can say is I prayed for God to be merciful to Atlanta, GA, before the set time, and I am certain many others did as well.

So how do you summarize the message of Ernie Knoll? God has nothing reliable to tell us and His decisions are so malleable that even the weak-minded followers of Ernie Knoll can change God’s mind?

Good thing for "weak minded men and women". It is when we are at our "weakest", that is to say, we are "setting aside" our own pride, ego, "know it all attitutde", that the Holy Spirit can use us at the best instrument. God has nothing reliable to tell us? Yes, God does, without a shadow of doubt, we are in the last of Earth's time, and communicating via Ernie and Becky Knoll, & the For My People Ministry team, and there will be more to come I am sure of it. Weak minded changed God's mind (how do you know who is and who isn't weak minded btw?) not to destroy Atlanta and you have problems that Atlanta was spared? Weak minded, you say, well, guess what, we are ALL weak minded. Get off your high horse because you have sinned just like all the rest of us human beings, and without the power of the Holy Spirit, ALL human beings are weak minded. You could take the "strongest self willed person" in the world, and they would be no challenge to Satan's weakest angel, without the power of Christ. I know of some very notable people who I have no doubt was the weakest of the weak (least I would think so), that are mentioned in the Bible. Moses and Jesus come to mind, both fasted 40 days and 40 nights, now, that would make the "strongest" of the strong weak body, mind, and soul. It is wake up time, has been some time now, for the SDA church and human beings worldwide. If you have read the truth book, you will notice alot about the SDA church is pointed out that alot of us didn't know, or notice. And there is information in there that covers alot of ground. You think the messages are "simple" or not of a "high learned person"? You know I have run into a lot of "high learned" people whose self-ego would not allow them to see the things God wanted them to see. And the mass of the population, is not "scholared". Those who are "scholared" and are led by the spirit will be able to discern the messages that Ernie Knoll has been sharing is from God. I suggest reading Rev 3:18 and then asking for God's garment, His Gold, and His eyesalve. Do you take the time to read the scriptures? Do you pray for the Holy Spirit before you do? Do you pray for the Holy Spirit before you read Ernie Knolls dreams? If not, then you are flying into a "storm" blind. Like an airplane pilot who has no gauges and is getting ready to fly into a storm. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, and NOT of our OWN SELVES, from the Holy Spirit.

NJK Project wrote:

Eugene Shubert wrote:All logicians understand that tautologies are statements that reveal nothing. However, I can make a definite prediction. God will punish the Prophet of Emptiness for his cheap sentiments and foolish tests.

As I said, I theologically and spiritually don’t see any “tautology” involved here, just rightly implement drastic judgement withhold as in Amos 7:1-6, for the vss. 7-9 “adamant wall” judgement instead: I.e., God’s people, as in the 70 A.D. Jerusalem destruction, causing there own destruction by their own faultive action. (And, e.g., if the rumors Catholic Church Defamation Lawsuit over the Great Controversy Project ever becomes a reality, as it lawfully could, and indeed indeed should, see here, that would be a prime example of the SDA Church reaping the natural fruit of their overall, entrenched Full Gospel and Righteousness of Christ-Rejecting stance and ways (see here).

Just an advise, and take it as you will, but I think you are on a wrong path in “despising” prophesying and not properly testing it. (contra. 1 Thess 5:19-22). I personally have gained much from not taking such a stance from prophesying which seemingly at first was contradictory to my own revelation and guidance, and through this due Biblical testing of them, I have come to see their dual implication, which “secondarily” involved the corroboration and confirmation of my own ministry work. And have thus been able to see and understand God full workings in all of these things.

By the way, any comment on my “Secondary” interpretation of Starman’s, ‘Uncle’ Bob’s and J Lynn Peters’ dreams referenced here??

I have also not heard any additional comment on the second set of my follow up interpretative comments on your dream starting here?

If you read the "The Mailroom" dream, all SOP books, the KJV Bible, and a blue piece of paper with these words "“Are you ready? JESUS IS COMING.” How this is to come about I don't know, I do believe it will happen though.
http://www.formypeople.org/En/13_the_mailroom.shtml

Eugene Shubert wrote:

NJK Project wrote:Well if you read my Secondary Interpretation of Starman’s dream, you’ll see for yourself how your primary interpretation of it is more assuming and eisegetical than self-detailed and exegetical.

Did it ever occur to you that you should first check with the prophet that actually had the revelation to see if my interpretation is correct? Steve's revelation is obviously about my theology. Send Steve an email and ask him if I'm right or not!

NJK Project wrote:In regards to the robe and the whitening of it, that all involves the Robe of Christ righteousness and that only Christ’s blood (Rev 7:14) (which is symbolic of (at least) His (Gethsemane) Passion cf. Mark 9:3) can make it what it needs to be... as the Bible says, ‘to a white that only a fuller’s soap can accomplish’ (see Mal 3:1-5ff; Rev 19:8; 22:14) and only fully walking in Christ’s footsteps will accomplish that.

Obviously! But my point is that Steve Starman and I both have a keener and more relevant perception of the most damning sins of the Seventh-day Adventist hierarchy than Ernie Knoll's attending angel. So how could Ernie Knoll be a prophet if God never revealed to him at least half of what Steve and I know without supernatural instruction on any particular topic? I mean, who ever heard of a prophet that never received any insight or understanding on anything? Clearly, Ernie Knoll deserving the title "Prophet of Emptiness" is just and most fitting.

Incidentally, if you truly believe that you had any gift at all in interpreting dreams, why aren't you writing a commentary on Daniel and Revelation?

Both you and Steve Starman have more "keener" and "relevant perception" of the most damning sins of Ernie's attending angel? Mighty high post you two are sitting on. Has it not occurred that Ernie Knoll's angel is only sharing what he has been told to share? As in other dreams only certain things are being shared. And Ernie Knoll's attending angel, every human beings attending angel, can see more than what we can, even if we "think" we can see alot, unless God reveals theses things to us. Ernie Knoll's title of a messenger of God is most fitting, in my view.

easyriderman wrote: (how do you know who is and who isn't weak minded btw?)

My conclusion is the inevitable consequence of a simple definition. A person is weak-minded if he or she believes that a simplistic commentary is absolutely obvious and non-controversial if it’s written in plain language but it must be a supernatural revelation if written as a dream. This is the secret of Ernie Knoll’s success.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote: (how do you know who is and who isn't weak minded btw?)

My conclusion is the inevitable consequence of a simple definition. A person is weak-minded if he or she believes that a simplistic commentary is absolutely obvious and non-controversial if it’s written in plain language but it must be a supernatural revelation if written as a dream. This is the secret of Ernie Knoll’s success.

Ernie Knoll's dreams are not commentairs, and they are absolutely controversial, otherwise, this statement would not have been put out.
http://ncc.adventist.org/article/817/ab ... rnie-knoll


Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:
the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Acts of the Apostles, p. 17
For the carrying on of His work, Christ did not choose the
learning or eloquence of the Jewish Sanhedrin or the power of
Rome. Passing by the self-righteous Jewish teachers, the
Master Worker chose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the
truths that were to move the world. These men He purposed to
train and educate as the leaders of His church. They in turn
were to educate others and send them out with the gospel
message. That they might have success in their work they were
to be given the power of the Holy Spirit. Not by human might
or human wisdom was the gospel to be proclaimed, but by the
power of God.

Rom_16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

And I find this so interesting. It is called the KISS method. I prefer to us the acronym Keep It So Simple (usually it is KISS and Keep It Simple Stupid). The lead engineer of Lookheed Skunk Works employed this method.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

An interesting view.
Albert Einstein's maxim that "everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Wow, a super genius saying to keep things simple.
Sounds simple enough to me, and the best way !

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote: (how do you know who is and who isn't weak minded btw?)

My conclusion is the inevitable consequence of a simple definition. A person is weak-minded if he or she believes that a simplistic commentary is absolutely obvious and non-controversial if it’s written in plain language but it must be a supernatural revelation if written as a dream. This is the secret of Ernie Knoll’s success.

The dreams are stated as being from God. I guess people could read dreams on other pages unrelated to For My People Ministry and say that dream came from God whether it did or didn't, even if the website said nothing about God. That would be that persons option.

Plain language is much preferred over complicated jargon. Jesus spoke in parables yet they where words that can be understood by most people, and the language is simple.

Conclusion: Ernie Knoll is a true prophet of God, and For My People Ministry is doing the work that God has called them to do, and not only Ernie Knoll is having dreams from God, dreams and visions are happening around the globe to a variety of people who follow God

easyriderman wrote:The dreams are stated as being from God.

Well, then that has to be the truth because Ernie Knoll has never lied.

easyriderman wrote:"the Master Worker chose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that were to move the world." {AA 17.1}

That's precisely why Ernie Knoll is not a prophet. He has no message. Who could possibly believe that exposing oneself as the Prophet of Emptiness is a message that would impress intelligent people?

.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote:The dreams are stated as being from God.

Well, then that has to be the truth because Ernie Knoll has never lied.

The Holy Spirit will lead you to know the messages are from God. And yes, Ernie Knoll did tell a lie or two, that is well known, and also explained. Who do we know that followed God, and was of great standing with God, that also lied? Oh, so, now, can we say that after this individual in the Bible asked for forgiveness, got it, and continued to walk with God, we are not to believe what He said or did ?
I would say probably the whole human race (except Jesus) has lied a time or two, you and me included. Does that mean we can not follow God, and still share the goodness of Jesus. No it doesn't. It is not a license to "lie", for there are consequences.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote:"the Master Worker chose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that were to move the world." {AA 17.1}

That's precisely why Ernie Knoll is not a prophet. He has no message. Who could possibly believe that exposing oneself as the Prophet of Emptiness is a message that would impress intelligent people?

.

Ernie Knoll has messages, not just a message. And you are saying essientially that Ernie Knoll is conveying the love of the love of the love and that is "empty"? Hmmmm. And true "intelligence" comes from God. Ask for wisdom and understanding from God and ye shall receive.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote:"the Master Worker chose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that were to move the world." {AA 17.1}

That's precisely why Ernie Knoll is not a prophet. He has no message. Who could possibly believe that exposing oneself as the Prophet of Emptiness is a message that would impress intelligent people?

.

Have you taken the time to ask for the Holy Spirit, and read the dreams and the Truth book for yourself, or are you just babblying from heresay or after reading one or two dreams ? Much is exposed in the dreams, if you ask God to open your eyes.

easyriderman wrote:Ernie Knoll has messages, not just a message. And you are saying essientially that Ernie Knoll is conveying the love of the love of the love and that is "empty"?

Ernie has no nontrivial message. Furthermore, I'm saying that Ernie Knoll is a practitioner and promoter of cargo cult super-mystical make-believe. That's a term that I've adapted from Richard Feynman's critique of cargo cult science. Thus Ernie Knoll is able to deceive superficial minds because such minds are empty of weighty truths and thus are easily fooled by Ernie’s audacious lies. Sadly, Ernie Knoll has no commendable understanding of Scripture, or genuine insight about anything, let alone a profound theology of his own, and lives to imitate the outward form of inspired dreams and visions even while having none of the substance.

Thus, the cult of Ernie Knoll is truly indistinguishable from the cargo cult of the South Seas:

In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas — he's the controller — and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land. —Richard P. Feynman.

I agree with you easyriderman, there is actually much that is packed into the imagery, depictions and symbolism incorporated in Ernie Knoll’s dream. And it take the guiding presence of the Holy Spirit, according to the due ‘non-despising and examining approach’ of 1 Thess 5:19-22, to pick up on these things. Like I said, I see this “simplistic” approach of God to be for “stumbling block” purposes which people like Eugene who demand that their God act according to their own preferences just most naturally stumble all over. I even see Knoll’s actually permitted fall in the Candace and Great Commission Council affair to have been permitted to further remove spurious “believers” (cf. Isa 22:22-25). That is all part of the Shaking Judgment of the SDA Church (cf. Zech 13:7-9 discussed in this post). Seems to me that Jesus Himself was rejected by the learned Jewish leaders of his day, and also the common people, because He did not come and act according to their grandiose expectation but, while claiming to be the Son of God, Messiah, and Davidic King of Israel, was actually a poor, vagrant common looking man. Yet didn’t he work many sings and miracles that all could honestly see was not “natural” (cf. John 10:24-26ff)

I have long seen that Eugene is not being mindful in this discussion but is just using the ignore-quibble-repeat method where he outrightly “ignores” the larger picture of prophetic things here and also whatever he does not have an answer to; finds a “out of its greater context” trivial point upon which to quibble and posts a “gotcha” answer, and then just repeat his initial claim. One can easily convince themselves to be “winning” an argument when such an isolatively selective method is being used.

Spiritual things are indeed spiritually discerned and when one refuses to involve the Spiritual in what is inherently a Spiritual issue, they just won’t begin to see the Biblical Light on the topic. And as you are saying it seems that Shubert is arguing from a limited first hand nor full knowledge of Ernie Knoll, his dreams and his various complimentary writings. As far as I am concerned, so be it, with the likes of Shubert on this issue. I personally have greatly benefited from the ministry of Knoll and do thank God for that additional and enlightening light.

Eugene Shubert wrote:

easyriderman wrote:Ernie Knoll has messages, not just a message. And you are saying essientially that Ernie Knoll is conveying the love of the love of the love and that is "empty"?

Ernie has no nontrivial message. Furthermore, I'm saying that Ernie Knoll is a practitioner and promoter of cargo cult super-mystical make-believe. That's a term that I've adapted from Richard Feynman's critique of cargo cult science. Thus Ernie Knoll is able to deceive superficial minds because such minds are empty of weighty truths and thus are easily fooled by Ernie’s audacious lies. Sadly, Ernie Knoll has no commendable understanding of Scripture, or genuine insight about anything, let alone a profound theology of his own, and lives to imitate the outward form of inspired dreams and visions even while having none of the substance.

Thus, the cult of Ernie Knoll is truly indistinguishable from the cargo cult of the South Seas:

In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to make things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas — he's the controller — and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land. —Richard P. Feynman.

You believe what you want, and I will do the same.