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| The Theory of Devolution Part 2 |
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| Shubee |
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: The Theory of Devolution Part 2 |
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 Forum Freshman

Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 46
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Formally,
the new theory of descent with modification (devolution) is based on
two postulates, in addition to my preferred definition of a scientific theory and a minor adjustment in the modern evolutionary synthesis.
1. All life forms are molecular machines. I don't believe that any scientist doubts this scientific hypothesis. [1][2][3].
2. The second postulate, the devolution hypothesis, stipulates that all molecular machines are becoming
less robust
over time. As genetic code in all life forms continues to get corrupted
and degrades through copying errors and other mutations, successive
generations of machines, in all series, must plod along with increasing
inefficiency and sometimes features are entirely lost.
Experimental support for the theory of devolution is just beginning to be noticed. Consider the article, Evolution of Penicillin-Binding Protein 2 Concentration and Cell Shape during a Long-Term Experiment with Escherichia coli,
in the Journal of Bacteriology, 2009 February; 191(3): 909–921. The
Abstract states: "In a long-term experiment, 12 populations of Escherichia coli
having a common ancestor were allowed to evolve for more than 40,000
generations in a defined environment." The abstract specifies the
"physiological trade-offs and ecological specialization during
experimental evolution" and identifies them precisely. The trade-offs
were that "both mutations that evolved were beneficial in the
environment used for the long-term experiment and that … both mutations
decreased cellular resistance to osmotic stress."
That's a very precise confirmation of the theory of descent with modification (devolution). Yes, the mutant Escherichia coli
that survived were better adapted to the new environment and could
outcompete the more robust ancestral strains in that new environment.
However, the more robust ancestral strains were more robust in their
preferred environment than the mutant Escherichia coli
were in their specialized environment. That's exactly what the theory
of devolution predicts. As the theory of devolution affirms, along with
evolution (change), which is due to accumulated mutation, there is
devolution (the decrease in robustness).
Obviously, in the background, there is a rather unsurprising principle. Escherichia coli
and their descendants can adapt to eating junk food but it's not good
for them. It accelerates their mutation rate. They would have been
better off in their original environment. |
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| drowsy turtle |
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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 Forum Professor

Joined: 04 Mar 2009 Posts: 1328 Location: UK
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I
disagree with the second postulate. I see no reason to accept it. The
main reason being, that how you decide how 'robust' a genetic sequence
is is entirely subjective: for a start we don't know with any certainty
what the majority of genes do, so jumping to conclusions that they are
errors is wrong. _________________

Last edited by drowsy turtle on Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Pong |
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Isotope

Joined: 08 Apr 2008 Posts: 2791
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...and the second is nothing but reductionism. It's essentially a call to ignore emergent qualities. _________________ A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn |
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| paralith |
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: The Theory of Devolution Part 2 |
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 Forum Cosmic Wizard

Joined: 06 Jun 2007 Posts: 2161
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| Shubee wrote: |
| Formally, the new theory of descent with modification (devolution) |
Descent with modification is evolution. No one doubts this. Your idea
specifies a certain type of modification. Please stop referring to
descent with modification as devolution.
| Quote: |
| is based on two postulates, in addition to my preferred definition of
a scientific theory and a minor adjustment in the modern evolutionary synthesis. |
You cannot simply use your preferred definition of scientific
theory. In science you cannot simply invent your own definition of
anything without due cause, and you have none. This is the definition
as used in science:
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts
or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is
widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural
phenomena.
| Quote: |
| 2. The second postulate, the devolution hypothesis, stipulates that all molecular machines are becoming
less robust
over time. As genetic code in all life forms continues to get corrupted
and degrades through copying errors and other mutations, successive
generations of machines, in all series, must plod along with increasing
inefficiency and sometimes features are entirely lost. |
First of all, you STILL haven't provided us with a biologically
relevant definition of robust, which is especially ironic after your
insistence in the previous thread on the importance of clear
definitions.
Secondly, this decrease in efficiency does not necessarily occur
and that is because of natural selection. As mutations arise those
which are detrimental to the reproductive success of individuals who
have it are removed from the population. Thus we have no reason to
expect an average decrease in the efficiency of molecular machines due
to mutation alone.
| Quote: |
Experimental support for the theory of devolution is just beginning to be noticed. Consider the article, Evolution of Penicillin-Binding Protein 2 Concentration and Cell Shape during a Long-Term Experiment with Escherichia coli,
in the Journal of Bacteriology, 2009 February; 191(3): 909–921. The
Abstract states: "In a long-term experiment, 12 populations of Escherichia coli
having a common ancestor were allowed to evolve for more than 40,000
generations in a defined environment." The abstract specifies the
"physiological trade-offs and ecological specialization during
experimental evolution" and identifies them precisely. The trade-offs
were that "both mutations that evolved were beneficial in the
environment used for the long-term experiment and that … both mutations
decreased cellular resistance to osmotic stress."
That's a very precise confirmation of the theory of descent with modification (devolution). Yes, the mutant Escherichia coli
that survived were better adapted to the new environment and could
outcompete the more robust ancestral strains in that new environment.
However, the more robust ancestral strains were more robust in their
preferred environment than the mutant Escherichia coli
were in their specialized environment. That's exactly what the theory
of devolution predicts. As the theory of devolution affirms, along with
evolution (change), which is due to accumulated mutation, there is
devolution (the decrease in robustness).
Obviously, in the background, there is a rather unsurprising principle. Escherichia coli
and their descendants can adapt to eating junk food but it's not good
for them. It accelerates their mutation rate. They would have been
better off in their original environment. |
This is not support for your idea, because your idea states that all
organisms are decreasing in the overall efficiency of their molecular
machines all the time. While these bacteria lost efficiency in some processes they become more
efficient in others, and in fact became more efficient overall in
regards to their current, specific environment. If anything this
experiment shows that natural selection makes organisms more efficient
at surviving in their environment, and how it can alter the organisms
to function efficiently in new environments as well.
Also, you are completely incorrect that the mutation rate increased in
this study. There is not a single mention of mutation rate in the
entire article you linked to. Mutation rate is largely constant within
a species unless there is adaptive reason to increase it, which there
can be if the environment is unpredictable and fluctuates often.
However that is not the case in this study.
I'm sorry Shubee, but your evidence fails to support your
hypothesis. Unless you have more evidence to offer you can consider
devolution thread #2 closed. _________________ Man
can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on
no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst
of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than
the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges
for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre |
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