THE LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!!   LAST DAY EVENTS   The Straight Testimony and Evangelism   Texas Conference Association of SDAs and Richardson Church versus Eugene Shubert

    
Author Topic: Texas Conference Association of SDAs and Richardson Church versus Eugene Shubert
Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-01-2001 01:03 PM          
Prelude To The Lawsuit

What happened between me and the Richardson Church ... in a brief narrative

Alfred Akar was a teacher in the Richardson church. He was also on the board. He befriended me and told me what a sharp dresser I was and that I was always smiling. He also said that he had noticed that I was always there, in church, every Sabbath. He then said, “I’m going to see to it that you get an office in the church.” I imagined having an office in the church and thought that an office in the church would be nice but a little inconvenient. I knew that he meant he would make me an officer in the church, but that’s the way I took it. He asked me how it was that I attended that church many years ago (he remembered me) and that I was gone for a long time and now I’m back? I told him that the pastor at the time (Richard Dickins) was offended when I told him about heresy in the church. I explained that Pastor Dickins escorted me out of the fellowship hall five years previous and told me that if I was ever to return to that church he would call the police and have me arrested for trespassing. (What brought me back is that Bob Fertsch saw me at a restaurant one day, asked me where I’ve been and said that Pastor Dickins was long gone. Bob invited me to return to church.) Alfred said that was terrible and reproved me for my self-imposed five year exile and said that I should have ignored the pastor and returned to church the next Sabbath.

Alfred then wanted to know more about who I was. I said, “Well, I am my theology.” [I am the sum total of my interests, experiences, aspirations, emotions, passions, capacities, faith etc. See my web page for expositions of greater detail]. I arranged to get him an article I wrote called The Seventh Faces of Seventh-day Adventism. We planned on discussing it in his car on one of the many nights of the church sponsored Revelation Seminar. We did meet and I was invited into his car to discuss the article as planned. When we both got into the car Alfred pulled out the article. He was visibly shaken. He had nothing to say. That was the end of that. We got out of the car and went into the foyer of the church. Alfred, still agitated about something, told me that I shouldn’t have an interest in what I had written. I told Alfred that the church published a whole book about just one of the seven faces (ISSUES: The Seventh-day Adventist Church and Certain Private Ministries) and that I covered all seven faces in just 3 pages. Alfred stressed that we are to forget about all that and just have a positive message. He must have been very confident that what I had published had no relevance to either him or me. I added that there was heresy in the Richardson church. At this he literally exploded in a fit of rage. There were witnesses all around and he made quite a spectacle of himself. That was on a Wednesday I believe. Alfred must have voiced some complaint to Ray House, the senior pastor. That Sabbath in church Ray asked me what I said to make Alfred so upset. I explained what happened and the pastor sided with me. At the end of church service on Saturday, the Pastor asked me to come to a meeting the next morning (Sunday). Jokingly I said, “Am I going to need a lawyer?” In the back of my mind I thought that I would be meeting with the elders and I imagined that the senior pastor would reprove them in my presence for dragging their feet and not allowing me to be accepted into membership for the previous six months.

There were just three of us, Leo Mathieu (the head elder), Ray House (the senior pastor) and me. It was a short meeting. There were only two issues that came up.

Mathieu complained that there were members who had things against me that happened 5 years previous. I said let’s assemble these people and find out what they are. They didn’t want to be identified. The pastor then said some nice things about me and mentioned that I was helping him with his sermon preparations. Mathieu then complained about me not accepting the theology of A. Graham Maxwell. The pastor spoke up and said, “I think Eugene has some valid concerns.” Mathieu retorted in a loud voice, “Well I don’t!” The pastor quickly sat up in his chair (to respectfully show that he was paying attention) and turned to me and with a tone of disapproval said, “Eugene, you’re just too animated.” He said that I was “too animated” several times. He kept repeating it. I thought to myself, “You want dead people in your church?”

I was dismissed by the pastor and was told that there would be a decision made about me being allowed to continue attending church. The pastor came to my place at 6 PM that evening to give me the news. The decision was no. A few days later I walked to the church to speak with the pastor. The pastor received me warmly and invited me into his study. I remember telling him that his actions were worse than that of Judas because Judas at least showed a sign of remorse and hanged himself. The pastor confessed that I did nothing wrong and said he was convicted of that when he left my home that Sunday. The pastor said that Leo Mathieu had been on the board for 13 or 14 years, and that all his close friends were also on the board. He was relatively new at that church. Ray then promised to assemble the full board for a special meeting. The possibility of letting me be there was out of the question. The board met. Some sort of agreement was reached. The board sends Pastor Ray House and the associate pastor Tibor Shelley to my place to deliver the news. Ray quickly excuses himself saying it’s a family matter and leaves as quickly as he appeared.

I invited Pastor Tibor Shelley to sit. He was wearing a face of utter sadness. With either visible anguish of soul and brokenness of spirit or truly the most sanctimonious disappointment that I’d ever seen, this pastor said that I could not come to church for 8 to 10 weeks. He said I had betrayed a trust. Six months earlier I was told (and I allegedly agreed) not to share any of my papers with anyone on church property. One evening after a Revelation Seminar, I was seen giving a paper to a visitor.

At this accusation I was grinning ear to ear. Yes, I gave away a paper. It was a compilation I assembled that was approved of by the Ellen G. White Estate and advertised in the Pacific Union Recorder for free distribution as the definitive answer to the question, What is the Seventh-day Adventist gospel and Why did Jesus die? See, Pacific Union Recorder, February 6, 1995 p. 26.

Pastor Shelley could not see the absurdity of me being banished for sharing the gospel. I suspected that the board would not allow me back, even after 10 weeks. I thought they would reconsider the banishment of only 10 weeks and make it permanent. I thought that they just wanted me to get accustomed to the idea of staying away.

I waited two weeks then returned to church, fully believing that church leaders must sometimes be disobeyed. I set my mind to do right, knowing that I would be arrested. I thought that some good might come out of it. I did this with a sincere hope that a sleepy congregation might be awakened and properly respond to the injustice in their very midst. As expected, the police were called and I was arrested for trespassing.

When released from jail two days later, I didn’t feel bad about my experience. The pastor and son came to visit me the next day. The pastor asked, “So what is it like to be in jail?” Even in this I presented a straight testimony. I said, “It's just like being in church. The conversation isn’t very stimulating and the food is bad.”

What I did not foresee, nor could endure with any grace at all, came a few weeks later. The Richardson church board appealed to the Texas Conference for instruction and guidance and they said, ‘No problem, we’ll file a lawsuit against that guy. We do this sort of think all the time.’ It’s all in the Richardson Church Board Minutes, subpoenaed by me and is part of the official court record.

The president of the Texas Conference refused to speak with me. The church attorney, David Coggin, was going to handle everything. The lawsuit he filed on behalf of the church was full of purposeful deception. The lies say,

quote:
The members of the Richardson Seventh-day Adventist church have repeatedly requested that the Defendant not engage in [the alleged reprehensible activities]. ...The members of the congregation have repeatedly asked him to not return to the church. ...Shubert insisted on entering the church against the wishes of the membership.

This accusation is not only false, it’s unbelievable. Such sentiments were never expressed.

If you read the Church Newsletter that was published immediately following my arrest, you can see that the whole purpose of the newsletter was “damage control” and to get a feel for what the church might be thinking about that high Sabbath day when the police came and took Shubert to jail. The testimony of the Leadership to the church powerfully contradicts what the Leadership told the court.

This whole scandalous affair was a secret to the church and solely the work of the “satanic agencies” whose decisions were formed in secret committee meetings.

Eugene Shubert
http://www.everythingimportant.org/


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-01-2001 01:14 PM          
Texas Conference Association of Seventh-day Adventists and Richardson Church versus Eugene Shubert

The Defendant’s Answer to the Plaintiffs’ Petition


Does God approve of the worship and devotion paid to popes and prelates?
Are Seventh-Day Adventists Aiding In Satan’s Determined Purpose To Exalt Popery?
The Presumption of Popery
Should Seventh-day Adventist leaders exalt themselves as if they were Popes?
Holy Father, Rescind Your Agreement
The Dupery of Popery


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-01-2001 01:19 PM          
The Testimony Of Jesus

I assembled the above compilation for my defense in the civil court case, Texas Conference Association of Seventh-day Adventists and Richardson Seventh-day Adventist church versus Eugene Shubert.

I was allowed to read the following extract on the day of trial. The following is a matter of court record.


Satan’s Methods: A Judgment Of The Devilish Details

What are Satan’s methods: and what is practiced in secretive and dark, sacrosanct counsels generally regarded as a prerogative of the gods? The Spirit of Prophecy answers these questions decisively. There is the masterful use of hearsay evidence in council and committee meetings. There is the commanding from a throne; There is plotting behind the scene. Actions such as these are inexcusable, yet this evil is not even understood as wrongdoing by the Richardson church board. This is the judgment of the highest court:

“Go to those supposed to be in error, talk with them, not working with duplicity and hypocrisy, meeting them day by day with apparent friendship, and at the same time plotting against them in perfect unity with the satanic agencies at work to uproot, to tear down, to remove from the institution the ones the unbelieving element wants removed, while not a word is spoken with the brethren or sisters in the faith to redeem them, to heal them, if they are in error; and if they are not in the wrong, to vindicate the right, and put the rebuke where it belongs—upon the plotters of an evil work, because Satan is behind the scene. The Lord Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, likening them to sepulchers that do not appear, hidden from sight, but full of corruption. The Lord hates all deception, secrecy, and guile. This is Satan’s work; the work of God is open and frank. No one will work against a child of God on the strength of the testimony of the Lord’s enemy, and work after Satan’s manner—concealing himself, yet suggesting, instigating, planning in perfect unity with the Lord’s enemies.
“How can the universe of heaven regard such underhanded, cowardly work against those who love God and keep His commandments? Members of the church may commit errors, and often make mistakes; but they are to be dealt with kindly, tenderly, as Christ has dealt with us. But the rebuke of God is upon all those who do the work of God deceitfully, professedly friends of Christ, yet working in an undercurrent style, in darkness, against those who love God. ‘Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.’ ” TM 274.

“Someone not so mindful as he should have been of Christ’s words, ‘Take heed how ye hear,’ allowed his unsanctified ears to hear wrong, his perverted senses to imagine wrong, and his evil tongue to report wrong. Many a man will not come openly to talk with the one he thinks in error, but will go to others, and under the mask of friendship and sympathy for the erring, he will cast reflections. Sometimes he openly agrees with the one whom he covertly seeks to injure. Suppositions are stated as facts, without giving the person charged with wrong a clear, definite statement of his supposed errors, and without giving him a chance to answer the charges. This is all contrary to the teaching of Christ. It is the subtle way in which Satan always works.” 15MR 174.

“Through the acceptance of hearsay evidence the enemy obtains great advantage in council and committee meetings. Those who would stand for the right if they knew what it was, are led astray by the evil surmisings of others in whom they have confidence. Their prayers are thus hindered, their faith is paralyzed and unkind thoughts, unholy suspicions, alienate them from their brethren. Thus God is dishonored, and souls are imperiled.
“When an effort is made to ascertain the truth in regard to those who have been represented as in the wrong, their accusers are frequently unwilling to grant them the benefit of a doubt as to the reliability of the evil reports. They seem determined that their accusations shall stand just as they have stated them, and they treat the accused as guilty without giving them a chance to explain. But when accusers manifest so fierce a determination to make a brother or a sister an offender, and cannot be made to see or feel that their own course has been wrong, it is evident that the transforming power of the enemy has been upon them, and that he has caused them to reflect his attributes.” RH, May 14, 1895.

The church board obviously denies reflecting Satanic attributes and being duped by Satan’s agents. They deny following Satanic principles; but they do affirm a keen sense of justice. They believe that God has been honored in all their decisions, and that their resolution [of evident coercion, cruelty and oppression] is ratified in heaven. To give you their point of view (and their beliefs as they sincerely wish to believe them), as expressed by their beloved commander, we quote the Spirit of Prophecy. We hold nothing back; We give you their answer! We begin the next section by citing a revealing soliloquy.


THERE WAS A COUNCIL AMONG THE GODS

Excerpts From The Official Board Minutes

Leo Mathieu Presiding

This sacrosanct senate has solemnly and carefully attended to the examination of all evidence presented, which confirms that a certain Eugene Edward Shubert, in this sacred council here present, a disciple not of Jesus Christ but rather of the arch false prophetess Ellen G. White, has obstinately taught doctrines and circulated documents that are full of errors and heresies. I pronounce therefore that all of his teaching is to sunned by faithful Christians [in the SDA church]. Furthermore, to ensure that his heretical teaching be eliminated from the midst of the church, this sacred synod hereby orders the diligent search for those writings — to procure their public burning by fire.

Shubert has scorned the due ecclesiastical process by appealing directly to the Lord Jesus Christ as the Supreme Judge.

In summary of all these various points therefore, this council judges him, Eugene Shubert, as having worked a fraud upon the Adventist people, most of all, in the city of Richardson, and that he was not a true preacher of the gospel of Christ, in accordance with the teaching of the holy doctors, but was actually their seducer.

This sacred synod recognizes that Eugene Shubert is obstinate and incorrigible. He is unwilling to recant the heresies and errors publicly defended and preached by him. For these reasons, this council does hereby declare that Eugene Shubert be deposed and degraded from the priestly order, and from the other orders by which he has been distinguished. Said degradation is to be carried out forthwith in the presence of this counsel according to the order required by law.

This sacred senate of Richardson, seeing that the church has nothing more it can do with Eugene Shubert, relinquishes him to secular judgment and decrees that he be given over to the secular court, to be punished for his bold and unabashed irreverence for our most holy authority and for his obstinate faith in those meaningless portions of the Spirit of Prophecy which we deem offensive, deceitful, and heretical. — Dialogue from a true parabolic prophecy: John Hus, Gateway Films, 1981; the prophecy interpreted, the interpretation inserted.


Startling Commands Have Been Received Direct From The Vatican!

The Accord Between The Pope And The Seventh-Day Adventist Church

The Directive From The Pontiff To His Legate

“The instructions communicated by the pontiff to this official were as follows:—

“ ‘We charge you to compel Shubert to appear before you in person; to prosecute and reduce him to submission without delay, as soon as you shall have received this our order, he having already been declared a heretic by our dear brother Alfred, Bishop of Asculan.’ * ‘If he should return to a sense of his duty, and ask pardon for so great an offense, freely and of his own accord, we give you power to receive him into the unity of the holy mother church.’ ‘If he should persist in his stubbornness, and you fail to get possession of his person, we give you power to proscribe him in all places in Germany; to put away, curse, and excommunicate all those who are attached to him, and to enjoin all Christians to shun his society.’

“The pope goes still farther, and calls upon his legate, in order entirely to root out the pestilent heresy, to excommunicate all, of whatever dignity in church or State except the emperor, who shall ‘neglect to seize the said Martin Luther and his adherents, and send them to you under proper and safe authority.’

“Here is displayed the true spirit of Romanism. Not a trace of Christian principle, or even of common justice, is to be seen in the whole document. Luther is at a great distance from Rome; he has had no opportunity to explain or defend his position; yet before his case has been investigated, he is summarily pronounced a heretic, and in the same day, exhorted, accused, judged, and condemned; and all this by the self-styled holy father, the only supreme, infallible authority in church or State! The spirit of the dragon, ‘that old serpent, which is the devil and Satan,’ is seen in this transaction. Notwithstanding his cunning, he has in his rage forgotten to be wise.” — Signs of the Times, June 28, 1883.

 

* Errata:

Luther, not Shubert. Jerome, not Alfred.


Rebuttal

E.G.W., Let Both Grow Together, Review & Herald, Jan. 3 & 10, 1893.

“The spirit that instigates accusation and condemnation in the church which results in uprooting those that are looked upon as evildoers, has manifested itself in seeking to correct wrongs through the civil power. This is Satan’s own method for bringing the world under his dominion; but the Lord Jesus Christ has given us no such example for thus dealing with the erring. God has been misrepresented through the church by this very way of dealing with heretics; He has been represented as the one who empowered the church to do these wicked things.
“Those who have differed from the established doctrines have been imprisoned, put to torture and to death, because the dignitaries of the church could not endure those who dissented from ideas which these leaders deemed to be true. Satan himself is the sower of tares; but even though he is the sower of them, they are not to be rooted up, lest by chance the wheat be rooted up with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. Fiendish zeal has been manifested in excluding dissenters from the fellowship of the church, and passing upon them the sentence of excommunication by which the Roman Church asserted its power of excluding them from all possibility of entering heaven.
“How does Heaven look upon such things? With what amazement do angels hear men judging and condemning their brethren, causing them most cruel suffering of body and mind, and claiming that they do it under the sanction of God? Instead of being under the leadership of Christ, they are following the leadership of Satan. Paul at one time pursued this course, actually believing that he was doing God service; but Jesus spoke to him, and told him that in persecuting His saints he was persecuting Him. All persecution, all force employed to compel conscience, is after Satan’s own order; and those who carry out these designs are his agents to execute his hellish purpose. In following Satan’s cruel proposals, in becoming his agents, men become the enemies of God and His church, and will be judged in that great day by that man whom God hath ordained; for He hath committed all judgment into the hands of His Son.” RH, Jan. 10, 1893. Also see Brotherly Love Needed, RH, Oct. 24 & 31, 1893.

Isn’t it amazing that the testimony of Jesus was allowed in a secular court but was disallowed for my defense in a Seventh-day Adventist church?

Eugene Shubert
http://www.everythingimportant.org/


Deacon

 

 posted 06-02-2001 02:24 PM          
Stilol beating that same dead horse, eh Eugene?
I have been to your website, it is atil as one sicdxed as ever and just as full of bovine feces as ever.

You tried this on MSDAOL, TRO, VOAF just oto mention a few SDA forums.
I've even seen your trype on Theology Online Forum.

You were asked to leave the Richardson Church because you refused to stop misusing scripture and Ellen Whites writings to promote your own brand of theology.
You can twist and turn all you want to, but you and I both know it is the truth.

How long will it be before you turn against this forum because they find out the truth about your rabntings, just as you did the other adventist forums.

You have set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner of all AND any that disagree with you.

I know a lot of people that are getting a little tired of your tirades.

Deacon


me again
 

 

 posted 06-02-2001 05:24 PM          
Deacon,

In reference to your accurate reply, all I can say is Amen !

 


W. R. Matheson
Guard
 posted 06-02-2001 07:57 PM                   
Eugene,

I have been an avid reader of your writings for some time now, and have seen that you were not fairly treated in the past. I have not joined other forums because of the behavior of the members.

Please feel welcome to post your messages here. So long as you have Biblical support, your thoughts will always be welcome.

Please remember to observe the rules that say that you should not contradict yourself on the forum. Other than that, brother, you are welcome here for you have an urgent message for us for this time.

W.R. Matheson

--------------------

Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-02-2001 11:27 PM          
Deacon and Me again,

You have been subpoenaed to appear and testify on the thread, Eugene Shubert versus Deacon et al.

Eugene Shubert


Ted McMillan
Top Ranking General
Member # 1


 

 posted 06-02-2001 11:47 PM                      
Dear Deacon,

We here at the forum do not know Eugene, and we cannot take anything that happened in the past for reference against him. We can only deal in the here and now.

The only thing that I saw so far were serious charges leveled against him. Still, the forum wasn't designed to debate on personalities such as Eugene. We would rather focus on the content of posts as it relates to the truth and the Adventist Church.

It looks like you and Eugene do know each other rather personally, but we don't want ill-will to mess up this forum on topics that do not necessary involve Adventism.

Even dealing with slander, we were expectant on the slander being against Adventism or institutions surrounding it. Not necessarily to individuals.

I will have to bring this issue before the moderators, who, unfortunately to date, number exactly ONE. This is not a good way to start anything! I am not too happy about it!

--------------------

For the Work Finished!

Ted McMillan
tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com
THE LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!!
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/


Ted McMillan
Top Ranking General
Member # 1


 posted 06-03-2001 01:08 AM                      
Eugene,

As far as desiring a thread that is totally free from criticism or what has happened to you, I really can't rule on that here as I see it at present. You can make topics that are NEWS-ONLY. That means that if you make a topic that starts with the following:

*[CLIPS] (Title of Topic)

then all that can be posted on them is official documentation with the appropriate references and with very little commentary if any. Other than that, people can adversely comment on any topic.

I had not yet put this fact in the Forum Rules, but I am going to have to do that immediately.

What can be ruled upon however is the content of the charges that were made against you. I will have to take a look at it and bring it before Wendy.

As far as I see, there is no proof yet of the accusations I saw in the first post given by Deacon. The first point would rather be whether or not Eugene's suggestions or interpretations are just his own imaginings. The other issues could come later.

If the charges or accusations cannot be proven, then a retraction or an apology would be in order.

--------------------

For the Work Finished!

Ted McMillan
tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com
THE LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!!
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/


Ruth
Guard


 

 posted 06-03-2001 03:23 PM                   
Eugene,

I started reading your material with considerable interest.

Though I did find it very strange that any church would "kick you out" for not believing in Graham Maxwell's gospel. His gospel is pretty controversial stuff and hardly held as "gospel truth" by SDA's I know-- though I guess he must have his followers in places, for his books did sell, and he was listed as one of the "various gospels" to be found in the SDA church in a book by Martin Weber.

Anyway, my point is that your rendition just got stranger and stranger. It was like entering a world of spiritual science fiction, written by a very over creative mind!

Oh, no! Don't tell me I'm as bad as that guy who told you, you were too animated. 

But really-- what is truth and what is fiction in these accounts?

Ruth


Ruth
Guard


 

 posted 06-03-2001 03:32 PM                   
Just to help you out Eugene--

Can you verify that this is actual truth:


quote:
The Directive From The Pontiff To His Legate

“The instructions communicated by the pontiff to this official were as follows:—

“ ‘We charge you to compel Shubert to appear before you in person; to prosecute and reduce him to submission without delay, as soon as you shall have received this our order, he having already been declared a heretic by our dear brother Alfred, Bishop of Asculan.’ * ‘If he should return to a sense of his duty, and ask pardon for so great an offense, freely and of his own accord, we give you power to receive him into the unity of the holy mother church.’ ‘If he should persist in his stubbornness, and you fail to get possession of his person, we give you power to proscribe him in all places in Germany; to put away, curse, and excommunicate all those who are attached to him, and to enjoin all Christians to shun his society.’


Or are you pretending to be the incarnation of Luther and reliving Luther's life?

Again what is fact and what is the product of a very active imagination?

Ruth


Ted McMillan
Top Ranking General
Member # 1


 

 posted 06-03-2001 04:46 PM                      
My sentiments are the same Ruth.

Although the allegory (I hope Eugene thinks that's what it is) does shed some form of understanding to the situation, it doesn't represent a true dealing with the facts, but rather looks somewhat like a waste of time on the issues.

I don't even know what Eugene did that was offensive to the Richardson Church. I was especially waiting to hear that since the Richardson Church is being presented in an unfavorable light. I certainly would like to see and hear for myself what Eugene believes. That's what we're waiting for.

--------------------

For the Work Finished!

Ted McMillan
tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com
THE LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!!
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/


W. R. Matheson
Guard


 

 posted 06-03-2001 04:52 PM                   
Sister Ruth,

Apparently, from that quotation, our friend has been excluded from Germany and from associating with people there. I'm curious as to whether there is a connection between the Richardson Church and Germany. If not, I would have to agree with our Brother Ted on this one.

W. R. Matheson

--------------------

Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.


me again

 

 posted 06-03-2001 06:54 PM          
In reference to Eugene vs. the Richardson SDA Church, here is the church website:
http://www.richardsonsdachurch.org/

(it looks okay to me!)


Ted McMillan
Top Ranking General
Member # 1


 

 posted 06-03-2001 07:53 PM                      
Give Eugene time you all:

He may not have even read our comments yet.

--------------------

For the Work Finished!

Ted McMillan
tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com
THE LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!!
http://www.seventh-dayadventism.com/


Wendy

 

 posted 06-03-2001 08:23 PM          
Have courage Eugene.

Ted,

Give Eugene a fair shake please. I would like to see at least one forum treat him fairly and with respect.


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-03-2001 10:34 PM          
Dear Friends,

I’m impressed by your friendliness. Please continue to be patient, as you have been gracious. Due to a few distractions I had to take care of, I will not be able to post any answers today or tomorrow. I am eager to respond and I look forward to beginning that task on Friday.

Best wishes,

Eugene 


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-09-2001 11:05 AM          
Originally posted by Ted McMillan:

quote:
I don't even know what Eugene did that was offensive to the Richardson Church. I was especially waiting to hear that since the Richardson Church is being presented in an unfavorable light. I certainly would like to see and hear for myself what Eugene believes. That's what we're waiting for.

Ted,

I apologize for the long opening post. Most people aren’t interested in carefully reading all the facts that a long post may contain and you should have a rule against it.

You ask what I did that was offensive to the Richardson Church.

I will try to answer as directly as possible.

1. The church was not involved. It was the decision of the head elder and all his buddies on the church board.

quote:
This whole scandalous affair was a secret to the church and solely the work of the “satanic agencies” whose decisions were formed in secret committee meetings.

It is easy to document how a sincere Seventh-day Adventist believer can be removed from the fellowship of several Adventist online forums for the most innocent of offenses. All you need is a sincerely believed theology that is deemed offensive and heretical. Likewise, it is just as easy to be removed from a SDA church fellowship for what is perceived as the slightest provocation.

2. What was my offense? Answer: It kept changing. In the first version of my alleged misdeeds, there were these two complaints:

There were just three of us, Leo Mathieu (the head elder), Ray House (the senior pastor) and me. It was a short meeting. There were only two issues that came up.

Mathieu complained that there were members who had things against me that happened 5 years previous. I said let’s assemble these people and find out what they are. They didn’t want to be identified. The pastor then said some nice things about me and mentioned that I was helping him with his sermon preparations. Mathieu then complained about me not accepting the theology of A. Graham Maxwell. The pastor spoke up and said, “I think Eugene has some valid concerns.” Mathieu retorted in a loud voice, “Well I don’t!” The pastor quickly sat up in his chair (to respectfully show that he was paying attention) and turned to me and with a tone of disapproval said, “Eugene, you’re just too animated.” He said that I was “too animated” several times. He kept repeating it. I thought to myself, “You want dead people in your church?”

I was dismissed by the pastor and was told that there would be a decision made about me being allowed to continue attending church.

On this basis, I was told I couldn’t attend the Richardson church. Recall the opening post where, a few days later, I walked to the church (midweek) and spoke with the pastor. I obviously wasn’t satisfied. The pastor agreed to assemble the full board to decide my fate. I was not allowed to attend. That board must have really scratched their heads to find a more reasonable accusation.

The board met. Some sort of agreement was reached. The board sends Pastor Ray House and the associate pastor Tibor Shelley to my place to deliver the news. Ray quickly excuses himself saying it’s a family matter and leaves as quickly as he appeared.

I invited Pastor Tibor Shelley to sit. He was wearing a face of utter sadness. With either visible anguish of soul and brokenness of spirit or truly the most sanctimonious disappointment that I’d ever seen, this pastor said that I could not come to church for 8 to 10 weeks. He said I had betrayed a trust. Six months earlier I was told (and I allegedly agreed) not to share any of my papers with anyone on church property. One evening after a Revelation Seminar, I was seen giving a paper to a visitor.

At this accusation I was grinning ear to ear. Yes, I gave away a paper. It was a compilation I assembled that was approved of by the Ellen G. White Estate and advertised in the Pacific Union Recorder for free distribution as the definitive answer to the question, What is the Seventh-day Adventist gospel and Why did Jesus die? See, Pacific Union Recorder, February 6, 1995 p. 26.

Here is the context to the crime of me sharing the gospel. The Richardson church was having a Revelation seminar. There was one exceptional visitor that I noticed there because he seemed to out of place. We talked. He said to me how strongly compelled he was to investigate what our church believes and that he came a long way to find out. He said that that he couldn’t come to every meeting and asked if we had something written that he could study. My first thought was to give him a small brown book on the 27 fundamentals of belief that I knew we had plenty of in the supply room. At the end of the church meeting I went up to the senior pastor and made the request for one. Ray House looked at the visitor and said no. It wasn’t the Sabbath; this visitor wasn’t dressed right; he was a big (not obese) hippie type with long hair and beard. Ray said that he didn’t want to encourage him because someone like that might stand up and say something unstable and could clear out the whole church building full of visitors in nothing flat.

I spent a lot of time talking with this visitor. He was unusually gentle and was genuinely searching for peace and acceptance with God. We talked for a long time. I asked him if he knew the gospel. He said no. Because he saw himself as needing deep study and because I thought the Adventist gospel was worth studying, we walked to my car where I had copies of the SDA gospel in print. This was an official church approved document that I shared with him. Official, that is, if you believe in the authority of the Seventh-day Adventist church and can therefore accept the imprimatur that was issued to me by the Ellen G. White Estate!

The final version of my alleged misdeeds came weeks after I had defied the council of elders. Not believing that a church board has a right to banish anyone for sharing one copy of an official Church approved gospel document, I returned to the church to be arrested for trespassing. The council, fully determined to justify their papal priorities and completely outraged by the inconvenience I caused them by choosing to be arrested, filed a restraining order with the court.

The church board needed to really vilify me at this point. They obviously couldn’t state the real reason for the restraining order. If they were honest they would admit that they only had two choices. They could choose Barabbas or Jesus. They chose Barabbas.

Here is the final version of my alleged misdeeds:

PAPAL BULL, page 1.
PAPAL BULL, page 2.
PAPAL BULL, page 3.
PAPAL BULL, page 4.
PAPAL BULL, page 5.
PAPAL BULL, page 6.
PAPAL BULL, page 7.


Amelia Denham

 

 posted 06-09-2001 09:09 PM                   
There are many things in this thread to think about, but this one fairly jumped out off the screen at me.

quote:
This sacrosanct senate has solemnly and carefully attended to the examination of all evidence presented, which confirms that a certain Eugene Edward Shubert, in this sacred council here present, a disciple not of Jesus Christ but rather of the arch false prophetess Ellen G. White,......"

Was this comment about Mrs. White actual or have you added your own imagined wording? If this was an actual statement by a member of the church board, I would be seriously concerned for the spiritual welfair of the congregation. I have heard about some churches teaching Sister Whites writings under the table, but to actually call her a false prophet is beyond understanding.

Amelia 

--------------------

"A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaks lies shall not escape" Prov 19:5


AmericanSDA

 

 posted 06-09-2001 09:21 PM          
I am sure it is true, Eugene took the minutes him self.

Now I understand better what the problem is.

Rebecca


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-09-2001 10:28 PM          
Context Context Context

Please Note The Context And The Specified Source Of The Comments


Texas Conference Association of Seventh-day Adventists and Richardson Church versus Eugene Shubert

The Defendant’s Answer to the Plaintiffs’ Petition


Does God approve of the worship and devotion paid to popes and prelates?
Are Seventh-Day Adventists Aiding In Satan’s Determined Purpose To Exalt Popery?
The Presumption of Popery
Should Seventh-day Adventist leaders exalt themselves as if they were Popes?
Holy Father, Rescind Your Agreement
The Dupery of Popery


The Testimony Of Jesus

I assembled the above compilation for my defense in the civil court case, Texas Conference Association of Seventh-day Adventists and Richardson Seventh-day Adventist church versus Eugene Shubert.

I was allowed to read the following extract on the day of trial. The following is a matter of court record.

The church board obviously denies reflecting Satanic attributes and being duped by Satan’s agents. They deny following Satanic principles; but they do affirm a keen sense of justice. They believe that God has been honored in all their decisions, and that their resolution [of evident coercion, cruelty and oppression] is ratified in heaven. To give you their point of view (and their beliefs as they sincerely wish to believe them), as expressed by their beloved commander, we quote the Spirit of Prophecy. We hold nothing back; We give you their answer! We begin the next section by citing a revealing soliloquy.


THERE WAS A COUNCIL AMONG THE GODS

Excerpts From The Official Board Minutes

Leo Mathieu Presiding

— Dialogue from a true parabolic prophecy: John Hus, Gateway Films, 1981; the prophecy interpreted, the interpretation inserted.


Startling Commands Have Been Received Direct From The Vatican!

The Accord Between The Pope And The Seventh-Day Adventist Church

The Directive From The Pontiff To His Legate

“The instructions communicated by the pontiff to this official were as follows:—

“ ‘We charge you to compel Shubert to appear before you in person; to prosecute and reduce him to submission without delay, as soon as you shall have received this our order, he having already been declared a heretic by our dear brother Alfred, Bishop of Asculan.’ * —Signs of the Times, June 28, 1883.

 

* Errata:

Luther, not Shubert. Jerome, not Alfred.

Isn’t it amazing that the testimony of Jesus was allowed in a secular court but was disallowed for my defense in a Seventh-day Adventist church?


W. R. Matheson
Guard


 

 posted 06-09-2001 10:36 PM                   
Dear Eugene,

On one hand, I see your great zealousness for God. Being "animated" is not normally a bad thing in most cases, and I appreciate your giving this material to the man you met at the Revelation Seminar. If your facts are correct, I agree that your elder acted very badly when he said he did not wish to encourage this person to continue to attend. That is frightening to me and should never be part of this church.

On the other hand, I am very uncomfortable with your practice of inserting your name into stories and quotations that relate to different circumstances and then labeling them "errata." Basically, it appears that you are creating your own Bible and SOP to comport with your views of how you have been treated. Adding to the Word of God is a dangerous thing to do.

W. R. Matheson

--------------------

Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.


Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-09-2001 10:55 PM          
Originally posted by W. R. Matheson:

quote:
Who is Alfred?

Alfred Akar is the infamous elder and teacher at the Richardson Seventh-day Adventist church, and the first two words of the first post.

Eugene Shubert


 
Eugene Shubert

 

 posted 06-09-2001 11:07 PM          
Originally posted by W. R. Matheson:

quote:
Dear Eugene,

If your facts are correct, I agree that your elder acted very badly when he said he did not wish to encourage this person to continue to attend. That is frightening to me and should never be part of this church.


That wasn’t an elder. That was the pastor.

Pastor Ray House is now with the good folks at Amazing Facts. Are they a part of this church?

Eugene Shubert


the servant

 

 posted 02-16-2002 04:26 PM                      
Boy oh boy, I don't know what all these funny faces and icons your supposed to choose from have to do with an un-biblical, secret, midnight, under the cover of darkness, lynch mob.
Now lets see,,, I'm kind of an old guy and really don't know the Scriptures as well as some of the more "learned" folks on the forum, but if you'll bare with me I'll try to give you my idea of what has happened to young Eugene..... here goes,,, Well it appears to this old man that history,(biblical), is being repeated these days in a prophetical parallel of a case much like the one a young fellow got himself into 2000 years ago. He dared cross "the powers that be" in the church,, and wilingly paid the price for his trouble... HHHMMMM, there once was a man who went around in the ancient SDA church in Jerusalem telling the bosses,(the holy "Doctors" of divinity, the reverned fathers as it were, the most high Pastors and the rest of the General Conference,, stationed at Jerusalem,that they were leading the flock the wrong way. He told them that His Father was their boss and not any finite sinful erring man....well thse guys were mortified at the very idea of a non-college educated brash fellow telling them, that God was displeased in the way they were leading HIS people.....you see these pompus rascals thought the G/C at Jerusalem was "the"church.The voice of God.
This brash young Israelite was a stubborn fellow just like His cousin John the Baptist, who came along just before,, and had publicly showed the sins of the leadership of the ancient G/C,, to the world ,,at that time some 2000 years ago. Well as the story goes,,, thse wonderful unsinless leaders met behind closed doors and decided that they would falsely accuse this young Man of heresy. They hired people to lie, didn't go by Hebrew law, tossed it out and looked at their policy book called the "church manual" and decided that the manual gave them authority, that they wouldn't otherwise have according to scripture, so they chose policy above scripture,,,(did I mention in a secret meeting meeting) and decided to hand this poor Man over to the civil authorities and took him , to court. Then with out any witnesses or concideration of a defence decided to kill THEIR OWN GOD. Does any of this sound familar to anyone who is not of a "learned" opinion out there.
Well my point being, guilty, not guilty, or whatever,,, why is this being done today in a Seventh Day Adventist church?????....to anyone. BY THEIR OWN RULES THEY DECALRE THAT EVERY MAN SHOULD BE PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.BY THEIR OWN RULES THESE PASTORS AND LAYMEN STAND COMNDEMED.....that's period, end of story!!!
Brothers and sisters it was the "chosen church", that did these things to my Christ, NOT THE WORLD.It was the "Church" who put Christ on trial for perjury and blasphemy and obtained what they otherwise could not. It was God's "chosen people" who used the heathen courts to "legally obtain" something that was "illegal" according to their own religious rules. If you will take but a few moments on the net and look up various other "indepentent" movements within the movement you'll see they all have law suits of the same nature. Anytime an old man such as my self or others "cry aloud and spare not" in these last days.....take it to the bank in heavan,,, you will suffer the rath of them "who say they are of Israel and are not".It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.
Now I don't know Eugene from Adam, and I am not a professional arguer as I see many on this site are,,,, so have at me, you folks won't be the first....Oh,, a little footnote,,,do you suppose God is keeping record of the words and actions here on earth of His "professed people" in this the shaking ,sifting ,sealing time???? His servant and yours D Oh and thanks for taking the time to read this unlearned note.

Eugene Shubert
Guard

 

 posted 02-16-2002 06:50 PM                   
Servant,

Thanks for your post. I see that you have a wisdom far beyond all the professional arguers and shallow sophists that scrawl their meaningless messages on the forums. You are a definite asset to this place.


the servant

 

 posted 02-17-2002 12:00 AM                      
Brother Eugene, If I correct,, my rotten spelling and bad grammer, so as to please all the learned folks on the site, that would make me a perfectionist, wouldn't it???I'd rather stay harmless as a dove,, if you catch my rather simple drift........didn't Jesus say keep it simple, and not to strain at a knat and swallow a camel???? Some of these folks write with such big words,, boy i tell you ,, I'm really impressed, trouble is I need the websters to unravel some of the comments. Oh well....I guess I'll have to try harder,,, god's peace D thankyou for replying so soon. ... hope it helped,,,,some of these folks seem to be very hard hearted, don't they.Must be the the stress of the times we live in,,don't ya think??
Jean Miller
Guard


 

 posted 02-21-2002 12:18 PM                   
I'd be interested in reading your paper The Seventh Faces of Seventh-day Adventism that you gave to Alfred. Could you post it here? I'd like to see for myself what riled them up so badly. Thanks!
Eugene Shubert
Guard

 

 posted 02-22-2002 07:28 AM                   
Jean,

It would be the easiest for me if you just email me a regular mailing address. I’d be happy to send you a photocopy.


Jean Miller
Guard


 

 posted 03-01-2002 11:35 AM                   
Thanks, Eugene, for the paper you sent me. I don't see why the Richardson church was so riled up over it! I agree with most of what you said and disagree on some--but certainly does not warrant throwing you out of the church--unless they are basing that action on other things as well.

I do disagree with your use of pictures--they look Satanic. Personally I don't think a Christian should use pictures like that. Maybe that's what upset them so badly? If I were you I'd take the pictures out because the pictures tend to speak louder than the words. Thanks for sending it!


All times are Eastern Time  

               
Contact Us | THE LAST WORD ON ADVENTIST TRUTH!! | Privacy Statement

Be careful with the use of copyrighted material. Posting here should come with an assumption that your words can be used for demonstration purposes.