A Reform-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum In our aim to exalt everything important, first and foremost, we seek to promote a clear understanding of Daniel, Revelation, the three angels' messages and the alpha and omega of apostasy.
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:01 pm Post subject: Tithing
I hope that this post goes here, if not, please move it to wherever it needs to be. I have just discovered this board today and am still learning my way around.
Anyhoo, I believe and practice tithing so that isn't the question. My question is this: If you see things "not up to par" in your church with respect to how money is handled. How much are you as an individual responsible? Especially when you are in NO position to do anything about the situation? In other words, is it ever o.k. to give your tithe and offerings to other organizations to help spread the gospel, when you feel that your own (local) church is not using the money for this purpose? We are told to be good stewards of our money and by with holding it we are robbing GOD, but at the same time shouldn't our church be good stewards too? Are we responsible if our church isn't being good stewards?
Did I make that as clear as mud? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Liz _________________ The fear (love) of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 1:7
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: The short answer
Dear Liz,
You ask a very important question. (It seems very clear to me). Jesus said, "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also" (Matthew 6:21). I therefore need to give you a very accurate answer.
Your high regard for Seventh-day Adventist doctrine is a good place to begin. I therefore advise you to study Tithing in the Writings of Ellen G. White. That document is loaded with vital facts and is written by Angel Manuel Rodríguez. He is one of BRI's finest scholars.
A key, inspired quote in the document superbly declares the church's position:
"The portion that God has reserved for Himself is not to be diverted to any other purpose than that which He has specified. Let none feel at liberty to retain their tithe, to use according to their own judgment. They are not to use it for themselves in an emergency, nor apply it as they see fit, even in what they may regard as the Lord's work."
Permit me to balance that quote with a few pertinent, inspired statements not mentioned in the study.
Ellen G. White wrote:
The voice of duty is the voice of God. The gospel demands from Christians unreserved consecration of soul and body. The Lord claims the highest service that men and women, aided by divine grace, can offer. In childhood, youth, and age, human beings of every rank, high and low, rich and poor, belong to God. They are to withhold nothing from him. Each one is to stand at his post of duty in the great enterprise of saving souls. {RH, March 2, 1905 par. 13}
The voice of duty is the voice of God,--an inborn, heaven-sent guide. Whether it be pleasing or unpleasing, we are to do the duty that lies directly in our pathway. If the Lord would have us bear a message to Nineveh, it will not be pleasing to him for us to go to Joppa or Capernaum. God has reasons for sending us to the place to which our feet are directed. There may be souls pleading with God for light in the very place to which God calls you,--souls to whom you can make plain the way of salvation. {RH, December 29, 1910 par. 10}
What is my duty? What shall I do to save my children and to save many souls from the coming tempest of wrath unmixed with mercy? God claims every power, every capability of action to be invested in the doing of his work. Talents, possessions, everything that is great and noble in man he calls to be exercised in his work. Duty admits no rival, enters into no compromise with any opposing powers. The most precious friends and relatives must not step in between your duty and your God. The voice of duty is the voice of God in our souls. Obedience to its claims brings us into living personal agreement with the highest law in the universe--brings man into alliance with God. {RH, June 7, 1887 par. 14}
To summarize, I believe it all boils down to the question of one having a genuine, informed Spirit led conviction. This was no problem for Ellen G. White. As the BRI study makes clear, Ellen White appropriated her tithe "to aid white and colored ministers who were neglected [by the church] and did not receive sufficiently to support their families."
Incidentally, you posted in the right place. You probably guessed that by seeing the other thread here on tithing.
Thank you for putting me "straight" again. Sometimes when you see and hear things that you think are not right, Satan is quickly there and starts his evil whisperings.
Thanks for shutting him up. At the risk of sounding stupid, what does BRI stand for, and also you quoted from RH, what does RH stand for?
Liz
P.S. I am from Amarillo. _________________ The fear (love) of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 1:7
Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Associate Director
Biblical Research Institute
General Conference
So then, the BRI is an office at the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists in Silver Spring, MD, which pretty much concerns itself with elaborating upon the denomination's official doctrine.
The Ellen White references that I added, to try to balance out what Dr. Rodríguez wrote, came from the online archives at the Ellen G. White Estate. RH is their abbreviation for the Review and Herald, the denominational periodical that routinely published articles by Ellen G. White.
Are we responsible if our church isn't being good stewards?
Yes. Consider the following extract from an article by Ellen White with the title, The Sin of Achan, published in The Signs of the Times, April 21, 1881:
"The history of Achan teaches the solemn lesson, that for one man's sin, the displeasure of God will rest upon a people or a nation till the transgression is searched out and punished. Sin is corrupting in its nature. One man infected with its deadly leprosy may communicate the taint to thousands. Those who occupy responsible positions as guardians of the people are false to their trust, if they do not faithfully search out and reprove sin. Many dare not condemn iniquity, lest they shall thereby sacrifice position or popularity. And by some it is considered uncharitable to rebuke sin. The servant of God should never allow his own spirit to be mingled with the reproof which he is required to give; but he is under the most solemn obligation to present the word of God, without fear or favor. He must call sin by its right name. Those who by their carelessness or indifference permit God's name to be dishonored by his professed people, are numbered with the transgressor, — registered in the record of Heaven as partakers in their evil deeds."
"There is need of earnest work to set things in order in the church of God, and it is fully as essential to do this work as it is to preach or to pray."
"Do we not encourage sin, by failing to meet it with plain and pointed reproof? We may have the clearest understanding of God's word, we may make a high profession of godliness, yet if injustice or iniquity is concealed among us, we need not wonder that our souls are dry and fruitless as a withered branch."
"The spirit of hatred against reproof is steadily increasing. It is considered uncharitable to deal plainly and faithfully with the erring. Sin is glossed over, and thus blindness has come upon souls until it is impossible for them to discriminate between right and wrong, between sin and holiness. Many have closed their ears to reproof, and hardened their hearts against every influence which would set their sins before them."
"We repeat, God holds the church responsible for the sins of its individual members."
"Those who have the true love of God in their hearts will not teach that sin should be handled with gloved hands. The words of God to Joshua contain a solemn lesson for every one who professes to be a follower of Christ, — 'Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed thing from among you.' "
Thank you very much, that is some pretty heavy stuff and I have a lot of studying and praying to do. Have I mentioned how much I like this site? It is absolutely wonderful. It is also an answer to prayer, GOD is sooo perfect in HIS timing. Thank you again.
Liz _________________ The fear (love) of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 1:7
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: tithing
Are there any verses in the Bible that would back up these statements. The system of tithing today is nowhere close to the system of tithing of the Old Testament IMHO. I'm not talking about the Temple Tax that was instituted by the Heresies and such. God never demanded to tithe in money. If anyone can provide me with such verses, I'd be glad to listen. That does not mean that you should not support God's work by giving money. But if we are to seek truth we have to be honest about it. There is a principle, yet this principle is taken waaaaay out of context.
The tithe was used to support priests and poor. The tithes food was also used as a potluck food at the fiests. It was food. There was no record of tithing in anything else nowhere in the Bible. Israelites used money and they used it extensively, yet God did not want money. He wanted food, because it came from God. directly He wanted part of it back as a sign of respect. Money never came from God. It is a human construct... Give to Ceasar what is due to Ceasar... so he never demanded money as tithe. You can search OT from cover to cover and you will not find a single verse supporting universal tithe that collected as money. NONE :).
That does not let you off the hook to be responsible for God's work as well as supporting poor people around you. Today's Church structure is a human construct. It's corporation. There's no such thing as a post of a President in the Bible. These are by no means comparable to preists of OT. Should you support it... it's up to you to decide. But let's be honest about Biblical view of this issue.
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