“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” —1 Corinthians 14:34-35.

It is absolutely shameful for untaught and unenlightened women to speak on doctrinal matters in church.

Dear Elissa,

Thanks for noticing the great displeasure directed at me. The actual reason for everyone’s hostility is that I had announced my intent of reporting a church disturbance. Immediately after I had started this thread with the opening post, I had posted the following:

Yes, I do have an actual disturbance I wish to report. I’m only checking if it’s theologically permissible to do so.

In reflecting upon the opening question, please keep in mind the many Spirit of Prophecy comparisons between Seventh-day Adventists and the Jews at the time of Christ.

What about those of us without husbands? Are we permitted to post?

Kelly

I am not the administrator of this forum. Women are permitted to post.

If you are asking how I would run a bulletin board according to Scripture if I had the opportunity, I will answer.

On the issue of having untaught and unenlightened women speaking out on doctrinal matters in church, I would start off by dividing the forum into several sections.

There would be a picnic area for men and women. Anything that people talk about at a picnic would be allowed there.

There would be a sacred place for sharing “present truth” by those who are recognized as having the appropriate gifts. That section would be set apart by its focus on the most important topics and would be patterned after the Sabbath School. Inspired counsel would be followed. Click here for a relevant list of inspired counsels in a related discussion.

I would also have a general (public) town hall theological discussion area out of which enlightened men and women could be recognized and selected to teach important insightful truths for the Sabbath School section. The Sabbath School would be open to all but the inspired counsel would have to be followed. Irrelevant and disruptive comments would be removed and placed in a disfellowship hall area as examples of wrongdoing. All the inappropriate comments transferred there would be deleted after so many days.

Are there exceptions to the rule that woman should not be allowed to speak in church? You would think so. There were prophetesses in the early church (Acts 21:9). And of course Ellen White was God’s messenger. Our recognition of that fact gives her the right to speak whenever she wants. There might be many women today with instruction for the church but they need to be recognized first. Even men shouldn’t presume that they have something to say.

God’s word says,

quote:

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Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will incur a stricter judgment. —James 3:1.

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How much more is this true of women!
 2000).]

Tell me, would your name be on the list that have these "appropriate gifts"??? You once labeled me a Shepherd Rod teacher, only to discover that you are the one who is still clinging to their erroneous teaching.
Ed White

How is it you believe your remarks qualify as Principled or Responsible Dissent?

A case in point is the following correspondence which was disseminated to 3 individuals with whom I have no association:--"My dear friend [A member of the Catholic community of faith who frequently inpugnes alt.religion.christian.adventist forum membership], how are you doing? I'm saddened to hear that a few godless characters who misrepresent themselves as Christians have troubled you.

Please do not assume that they are members in good standing in the Seventh-day Adventist church. I do not know [???] or [???] but I do know Dolf Boek. I do not believe he is an Adventist. His website displays no love of the gospel of the kingdom but rather of an obsession with Greek philosophy and bizarre sounding titles like, 'The Sodomite Prophecy.'

He routinely posts irrational gibberish on Adventist bulletin boards. He is clearly not sane. His association with [???] and [???] proves the worth of the three. The email from [???] is clearly rude and obnoxious. Please consider these three as members of a lunatic fringe but not of the Seventh-day Adventist church." [Internet Personality known as 'Eugene Shubert', 4th May, 2000]

- dolf

I could tell you of supernatural revelation I’ve received from the Lord and being admonished by Him in a dream through an angel but you wouldn’t believe. But for those who can recognize revelation, they would put my name on the list of true messengers with a message.

As for all the lies by Satan’s puppets meant to disrupt the messages of the Lord, I refer you to two threads:

Debate and controversy a device of Satan
Satan’s Agents Are On This Forum

Sincerely,

Eugene Shubert

"Eugene…You bring up a good point that the Bible and SOP has already answered for you, so this thread will not be short.

“Every unconverted man is fascinated, bewildered, by the bewitching power of the great deceiver. Paul wrote to the Galatians, "Who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth?" Every person who cherishes a known error, in faith or practice, is under the power of sorcery, and is practicing sorcery upon others. Satan employs him to mislead other souls.” Signs of the Times, May 18, 1882.
Some of this “known error” on this forum will be cherished to the bitter end because that’s the way they were taught. Then Pride of opinion enters in after 30 years under their belt believing that way. But it need not be. “Most difficulties could be cleared up in 5 min. if we would only humble ourselves and say we are sorry’’ . Ed White"

Ed White

"If there are poor among you, any one of your brethren, in any of your cities [HT: gates] in your land which Hashem, your G-d gives you, you shall not harden your hearts, nor shall you close [Neofiti mg: the same verb: tqspwn for tqpswn: metathesis] your hands from your brethren; But you shall surely open your hands to him, and you shall surely provide him in proportion to his lack, which is lacking to him. Take heed of yourselves lest in your malicious [haughtiness; Literally: behind your haughty] heart there be a sinful word, saying: 'The seventh year, the year of release, is drawing near,' and you are displeased with your poor brother and you do not give him (anything), and he cry out before the L-rd against you, lest there be sin in you [Literally debt or guilt in/upon you]. You shall give to him freely, and it must not look displeasing in your sight when you give [Literally: be evil in your face] to him because on account of this thing the L-rd your G-d will bless you in all the work of your hands." [© 1997 The Order of Saint Benedict, Aramaic Targum Neofiti 1: Deuteronomy 15:7-10]

- dolf

Satan, that old serpent, the devil is exulting over this thread! Satan is getting his way with these arguments.

I'm praying for all of you, especially for brother Eugene. I'm getting the feeling that you haven't been praying for me, Eugene, considering that you have accused me of being unlearned and a woman (Oh dear!).
Brother Eugene, all I have to say is to never underestimate the power of God.

"If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from Him, that he who loveth God love his brother also." I John 4:20,21

Our Father God, please humble our hearts and speak to us through your Holy Spirit! AMEN!!

Peace and Blessings to all of you!!

Aletha

God uses anyone he sees would be an instrument to bring more souls into His kingdom, and that includes women!

According to that Jesus would not be allowed to speak in the synagogue of His day.

You sure seem down on not only women but a lot of others who dont happen to hold degrees. Who says that a bum from the street cant know God better than you? Maybe God has given him a message. You want a very controlling and suppressive atmosphere. I would never belong to such a discussion group.

If I ran things here, I'd lock both you and Dolf in a private room and let you both destroy each other. Sheesh.
--Ðøug